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gkr
gkr
More on Obama vs. CLinton
Barack Obama I like.

Barack Obama supporters? Well, many of them have taken on the Republican party's job of throwing bullshit at the Clintons.
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efebruary From: efebruary Date: February 11th, 2008 05:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
hear hear
chiaspod From: chiaspod Date: February 11th, 2008 06:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
the Republican party's job of throwing bullshit at the Clintons.

Hello, gkr, and welcome to the primaries!

If/when I do talk about Obama's policies and why that makes him a superior candidate in my eyes than Clinton, I do have to contrast the positions. It's pretty much that simple when you have two candidates who are both viewed as generically liberal.

I prefer managed healthcare over mandated healthcare.
I prefer a candidate who supports the Mine Ban Treaty.
I prefer a candidate who believes the war on drugs should take the form of education, and who supports needle exchange programs.
I honestly prefer a candidate who understands that flag-burning is a matter of free speech.
I prefer a candidate who champions ethics reform in politics.
I prefer a candidate who is outspoken in liberalizing our immigration policies.
... which extends to free trade. :)

Stated that way, it allows for wiggle room when someone is championing either side; plus, the similarities between the two - in terms of voting records for the two years their time together has overlapped - reveals that they've participated in 600+ roll call votes, and only diverged 40 times.

From what I've seen and heard, Obama does *not* seem to share the "nanny state" philosophy that will protect us from ourselves; he simply espouses a series of beliefs and political stances that works to bring openness to politics, social justice to our policies, and have us participate more freely in the world without resorting to the end of a gun. Clinton, however, has repeatedly voted to save us from ourselves - cartoon violence, video game violence, flag burning; she's voted towards isolationism, anti-immigration, and trade tariffs being raised.

I guess I don't know what you consider "throwing bullshit." :)
gkr From: gkr Date: February 11th, 2008 07:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
See, now none of that is throwing bullshit. Throwing bullshit is stuff like "Clinton is too emotional" or stuff like what Paul Krugman wrote about on his blog today: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/11/on-race-cards-and-all-that/

chiaspod From: chiaspod Date: February 11th, 2008 10:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm going to go a little off-topic for a second, and talk about a previous LJ entry of yours - I'll try to bring it back to how it pertains to this LJ.

While I agree that one shouldn't support a candidate solely on personality and presentation, I do believe it is reflective of that candidate's judgement. As a politican, it is, literally, his job to be able to read the people he is addressing and convey information and presentation in such a way as to engage that audience. I say "he" only because that's proper English, by the way.

Any criticism I've had with Clinton's personality revolves are two, maybe three points:
a) she has a hard time reading her audience. The best example would be when she was down in Alabama back last March and, um, "adopted" a Southern drawl. I honestly do credit the explanation that she was just trying to connect, to find the rhythm to best accord the speech she was giving, but it was obviously contrived and a bit insulting to someone who has a Southern drawl.
b) she somewhat fails to inspire passion. She's very logical, methodical, and has things planned well in advance; I wouldn't fault her competency in any way. But by the same token, taking the accountant's approach to Big Change doesn't inspire confidence, evoke energy, or bring out passion the same way that being able to emotionally connect with your audience does.

All that being said, and including your link, I can see what you mean about throwing bullshit. I suspect a lot of the 'too emotional' criticisms started up after, what was it, Ohio when she cried on camera. And, and this is purely personal opinion, I think it gets back to reading her audience and not connecting with them - but I think the fault/flaw/whatever is from before she cried, when she was being too polished, too analytical, too intellectual. After a period of that, she couldn't win either way - she could be accused of being an Al Gore, or accused of breaking down and using emotion as a political tool. When in fact she was, at worst, slightly overcompensating for the anticipated sexism aimed at her being a woman in an Old Boys' Club.
gkr From: gkr Date: February 11th, 2008 07:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
Not to mention the multiple copies of pro-Obama spam comments I got over on another blog. One shouldn't dare to say anything positive about Hillary Clinton apparently. I expect this from Republicans of a certain ilk. It irritates me from Democrats.
chiaspod From: chiaspod Date: February 11th, 2008 10:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
Republicans of a certain ilk

For that alone, I adore you - not lumping all GOPers into one bucket. I think you're missing a piece of the puzzle, though - that anti-HRC sentiments from all sides pre-existed her run for the Presidency, it was just unfortunately drowned out by blathering blowhards on the AM dial, most of whom self-identify as "conservative" or "Republican" (usually the former).

I've been fairly quiet in my Obama support (mostly because I don't trust people to not have the reaction of "wait, why is he supporting Obama?" Heh), but I'd gladly discuss his merits if you want. The only problem is I don't feel I have the passion over it that more ardent fans (like Pseudogoth) might have ... I just feel he more closely matches my own personal ideology than any of the other existing candidates.

... I still wish Richardson had stayed in.
lori_dyann From: lori_dyann Date: February 11th, 2008 09:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've been bashing Hillary years before I ever heard Obama's name.
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